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 Post subject: Soaring Skillet issue
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:18 pm 
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Dang, it's been quite some time since I posted in here. I think the last time I did Morgan was going to give me a beat down :mrgreen: I forget what pedal it was.

Ok, so maybe some of this is due to my lack of understanding how the pedal works but here goes. If I need to pull it and take pics of the other side of the board I will but I just didn't want to unless I had to.

Also, quick note on the phaser trimmer. I can detect nothing when I turn this trimmer meaning I don't detect any change in the phasing I hear. It doesn't go from Ew to Aw or anything that I can pick up on. It phases fine, it just doesn't make any difference where I set it.

Without further ado....

When in bypass and rotary switched to:
B = Get volume in both amps but there is a huge drop in the R amp and the R amp has this weird tremolo/phase effect. Nothing in the L amp with this weird effect.
L = Get a volume increase in R amp and the volume goes down in the L amp
R = Get a volume decrease in the R amp.

Pan only and the rotary swtiched to:
B = Nothing wrong. Equal panning on both amps. Volume roughly the same.
L = Both amps are good on panning however the L amp I get a big volume loss. (pare of me wonders if I meant to say R amp on my notes)
R = Both amps are good on panning but I get the same volume loss in the same L amp.

Phase only and the rotary swtiched to:
B = Phase works in both amps however I'd say there is a 90% volume loss in the R amp
L = Phase works in L amp but is gone totally in the R amp. Normal I guess? But, I still get volume through the R amp.
R = Phase works in the R amp but I get maybe a 90% volume loss in the R amp. Phase totally one in the L amp but still get plenty of volume.

Phase plus Panning and the rotary switched to:
B = All is perfect. No volume loss in either amp and plenty of sweet phasing and panning.
L = L amp is all good. In the R amp the phase is gone but I still get panning.
R = R amp is all good. In the L amp the phase is gone but I still get panning.

Image

When testing all this I had the knobs in these positions:
Image

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warm places theory sounds plausible. Occasionally, I wake up and think my snake is missing too, but it turns out it's just a chilly morning. :P


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Hey John! Man, a lot of weird, non-specific symptoms here. Have you reflowed all the solder joints yet?

TNblueshawk wrote:
Also, quick note on the phaser trimmer. I can detect nothing when I turn this trimmer meaning I don't detect any change in the phasing I hear. It doesn't go from Ew to Aw or anything that I can pick up on. It phases fine, it just doesn't make any difference where I set it.

Weird. Can you try to measure the resistance of the trimmer to make sure it is a 1meg? The phase bias should be 100k and the voice trimmer should be 1meg.

TNblueshawk wrote:
[b]When in bypass and rotary switched to:
B = Get volume in both amps but there is a huge drop in the R amp and the R amp has this weird tremolo/phase effect. Nothing in the L amp with this weird effect.

This is very disconcerting. When you have things set up this way, if you unplug either of the amps from the pedal, does it effect the other amp? I.E. - if you unplug the output to the L amp, does the R amp continue to oscillate? If you switch the amps on the outputs, does the oscillation stay on on the same amp or does it stay on the R output?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:50 am 
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Hey Morgan, hope to get back to you on this tonight or tomorrow.

I re-flowed everything last night and was going to work on it a bit when a heavenly voice called from above and I had stop. Actually it was my wife saying dinner was ready and that was that.

Question: I didn't think I could measure the trimmer while it is in the circuit? I need to pull it right?

Other observation right when I had to stop I noticed I have the butt ends of 2 joints touching on a couple resistors that sit next to the rotary switch. I don't know if I did that on the re-flow or if they have been that way prior. I'll clean that up or maybe they are in line anyway. Not sure.

I'll report back as soon as I can.

I did take a few pics of the back in case we need them. You can see the 2 joints I mention in the second pic. They are right up against the switch. I think they are touching. Now I can't recall if I took the pics before or after I did the re-flow. I think I took them before. I didn't realize all the pics weren't crisp until now.


Image

Image

Image

Image

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powerpopguy wrote:
warm places theory sounds plausible. Occasionally, I wake up and think my snake is missing too, but it turns out it's just a chilly morning. :P


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:27 am 
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Are you sure you had the rotary set to position 1 when you put the lock in place? Are you sure you have the rotary switch oriented correctly?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:45 am 
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TNblueshawk wrote:
Question: I didn't think I could measure the trimmer while it is in the circuit? I need to pull it right?

The voice trimmer is used as an inline resistor, so you can measure it in situ. The middle lug is tied to one of the two outer lugs ( I can't tell which one), so you'll get 0 ohms between middle and one of the outer lugs always. You should be able to measure across both outer lugs to make sure it is a 1 meg.

TNblueshawk wrote:
Other observation right when I had to stop I noticed I have the butt ends of 2 joints touching on a couple resistors that sit next to the rotary switch. I don't know if I did that on the re-flow or if they have been that way prior.

I see that R22 and R23 are touching - that is fine, they are meant to connect. I can't see the other pair you are referring to.

Image

http://byocelectronics.com/schematics/soaringskilletscheme2.pdf

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:58 am 
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byoc wrote:
Are you sure you had the rotary set to position 1 when you put the lock in place? Are you sure you have the rotary switch oriented correctly?


It's one of the first things I thought of. Now, this means nothing, but I was so concerned about this, always am using these things, that I must have checked 10 times and then I finally marked it with a marker. Having said all that I don't know how I would know for sure.

Assuming I was off a notch would that just not cause all kinds of chaos? I guess chaos as in worse than what I have? Keep in mind it all works great in a certain position.

Morgan, I was just referring to the ones you mention.

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powerpopguy wrote:
warm places theory sounds plausible. Occasionally, I wake up and think my snake is missing too, but it turns out it's just a chilly morning. :P


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:53 pm 
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Ok, did more testing.
- I reflowed all the joints
- The phaser voice trimmer is 1m for sure as it should be.
- I did my best to set each amp to the same volume level by ear.
- The bypass tremolo effect I mentioned is gone. But when I go from L, B and R on the switch I still get volume ups and downs on each amp depending on what I switch to.

Other observations:
Pan only: Why when I unplug the R amp do I get panning in the L amp when I switch to R on the rotary? Shouldn't the L amp just cut out? Maybe I don't understand how the pedal works in that regards. Vice versa when I unplug the L amp.

Finally the oddest thing of everything to me at least:
Phase only: When the rotary is in B or L the same symptoms exist as I stated above except I don't seem to get a volume loss in the R amp now. However, when I switch to the R on the rotary, and both outputs are plugged in, I get no phasing in the left amp but plenty of volume. In the R amp I lost almost all volume but when you put your ear to the amp you can hear the phasing so when I max out the amp the phase is more detectable. Now, when I unplug the L output at this point the volume jumps back into the right amp and phasing is perfect. What the heck is that?
Plug the left output back in and out goes the right amp or at least 98% of it.

:roll: Yikes

So, let's assume I FUBAR'd the rotary might this produce symptoms like this or would I get even crazier things going on and or complete shut out of phasing and or panning no matter what I do?

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powerpopguy wrote:
warm places theory sounds plausible. Occasionally, I wake up and think my snake is missing too, but it turns out it's just a chilly morning. :P


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:49 am 
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TNblueshawk wrote:
byoc wrote:
Are you sure you had the rotary set to position 1 when you put the lock in place? Are you sure you have the rotary switch oriented correctly?


It's one of the first things I thought of. Now, this means nothing, but I was so concerned about this, always am using these things, that I must have checked 10 times and then I finally marked it with a marker. Having said all that I don't know how I would know for sure.

Assuming I was off a notch would that just not cause all kinds of chaos? I guess chaos as in worse than what I have? Keep in mind it all works great in a certain position.

Morgan, I was just referring to the ones you mention.


Take the lock out. Turn it all the way CCW. Put the lock in position 3.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:58 am 
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TNblueshawk wrote:
Ok, did more testing.
- I reflowed all the joints
- The phaser voice trimmer is 1m for sure as it should be.
- I did my best to set each amp to the same volume level by ear.
- The bypass tremolo effect I mentioned is gone. But when I go from L, B and R on the switch I still get volume ups and downs on each amp depending on what I switch to.

Other observations:
Pan only: Why when I unplug the R amp do I get panning in the L amp when I switch to R on the rotary? Shouldn't the L amp just cut out? Maybe I don't understand how the pedal works in that regards. Vice versa when I unplug the L amp.

Finally the oddest thing of everything to me at least:
Phase only: When the rotary is in B or L the same symptoms exist as I stated above except I don't seem to get a volume loss in the R amp now. However, when I switch to the R on the rotary, and both outputs are plugged in, I get no phasing in the left amp but plenty of volume. In the R amp I lost almost all volume but when you put your ear to the amp you can hear the phasing so when I max out the amp the phase is more detectable. Now, when I unplug the L output at this point the volume jumps back into the right amp and phasing is perfect. What the heck is that?
Plug the left output back in and out goes the right amp or at least 98% of it.

:roll: Yikes

So, let's assume I FUBAR'd the rotary might this produce symptoms like this or would I get even crazier things going on and or complete shut out of phasing and or panning no matter what I do?


I'm not sure what's going on. There's some complex switching going on here. I would need to cover my wall with photos and red yarn to piece together all the clues with this one. Do you have some buffers? 3 of them....even if they are just BOSS pedals in bypass? Put one on the input and one on each output. Maybe it's just an impedance issue.

Aside from that, my best suggestion would be to remove the rotary switch, and hardwire each of the 3 effects (you basically have 2 tremolos and 1 phaser) and test them one at a time to verify that each is working properly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 am 
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I'm equally flummoxed....

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:51 pm 
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byoc wrote:
TNblueshawk wrote:
byoc wrote:
Are you sure you had the rotary set to position 1 when you put the lock in place? Are you sure you have the rotary switch oriented correctly?


It's one of the first things I thought of. Now, this means nothing, but I was so concerned about this, always am using these things, that I must have checked 10 times and then I finally marked it with a marker. Having said all that I don't know how I would know for sure.

Assuming I was off a notch would that just not cause all kinds of chaos? I guess chaos as in worse than what I have? Keep in mind it all works great in a certain position.

Morgan, I was just referring to the ones you mention.


Take the lock out. Turn it all the way CCW. Put the lock in position 3.


I'll do this first. Assuming this doesn't help, shall I assume there is no way to verify that soldered the switch in correctly short of desoldering all 16 lugs and taking a look see?

I'm bumfuzzled myself.

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powerpopguy wrote:
warm places theory sounds plausible. Occasionally, I wake up and think my snake is missing too, but it turns out it's just a chilly morning. :P


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:19 am 
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I'd use page1 of the schematic and verify that you have proper continuity at all points and all positions of the rotary switch. That would actually help a lot to do that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:21 am 
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...and SW1 as well. There's a lot going on there. But I think it's still easier than desoldering the rotary.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:34 am 
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byoc wrote:
...But I think it's still easier than desoldering the rotary.

It's gotta be. I had to de-solder a 3P4T rotary once, and once was quite enough, thank you. Took well over an hour to get all the lugs free. Massive PITA!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Circling back here I'm going to call it as they say. I'm able to get what this pedal can do in a few of the settings. In other words I can get full phase and panning out of one amp, really both but only in one setting, and one amp is all I'll really ever use. The phaser is really quite stellar. I just can't bring myself to dismantle this thing individually and figure it out. Being the home picker that I am realistically having the ability to do everything is not what I'll end up doing anyway. I could justify this build for the phaser alone.

I checked the rotary and I'm convinced it is in there right. I took another one I have and analyzed it and I think it's soldered correctly. I did try the buffers. I had 1 Stephen mini buffer and couple of wah's with buffers. It made things worse so it's not that. I'll just chalk it up to gremlins.

Thanks for the help guys.

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powerpopguy wrote:
warm places theory sounds plausible. Occasionally, I wake up and think my snake is missing too, but it turns out it's just a chilly morning. :P


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:43 pm 
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Awesomest phaser ever!!!!


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