Build Your Own Clone Message Board

I never realized that Zeppelin, one of the HUGEST bands of ALL TIME, were such huge plagiarizers. What a disappointment.

Zeppelin Ripoffs

_________________
"It’s your soldering."

That is an interesting video, but for me, I need to see the actual evidence that the maker of the video bases their allegations on, like court documents and credible evidence. However, some of the examples were supposedly settled out of court, so there may not be a paper trail to verify the authenticty of these claims. The video was well produced, but they never really mention the sources for their argument. Any legit argument in my mind would have verifiable references or make reference to things that we could investigate and look at on its own. Also, some of the original songs were rather obscure, that if it wasn't for Led Zepplin, many people would have never heard them.

Finally, while the producer claims Zepplin stole this song and missused that song, and didn't properly credit people, well the producer doesn't credit his sources or doesn't really give any info on where to find, or where he found, some of the original recordings. So the producer of this expose of Zepplin stealing and misusing other peopls music may have the ironic twist that the producer of that little piece is doing the exact same thing. Anyways, I always knew Zepplin ripped off other artists, so did Elvis and many other huge stars in the past, so its not that surprising. What is surprising to me is that there still must be some sort of Zepplin mafia keeping this info under wraps? I mean all this info is decades old, and I'm just surprised there hasn't been more made of this if ALL the claims are indeed true.

I can see the connection with some of them, but need to see the actual evidence and not yellow type the producer tells me is evidence. Maybe its just me though...

_________________
RAMA LAMA FA FA FA

After doing a little search it would seem that all the plagiarism accusations are true. While the original songs may be obscure and decades old it doesn't make it OK to record them, in some cases almost note for note, and then call them your own.

_________________
"It’s your soldering."

http://www.jewsrock.org/index.cfm?fusea ... 284287441E

This is a good article

_________________
Sponsored by Smitty's Barrows
New and Improved, now with WHEELS!

Half those songs don't bear resemblance to the originals save the same name and a few same words and the other half I already knew about.

This is decades old. I wonder if the producer has any groundbreaking allegations in store for the Reagan administration.

here's the comment I left on the youtube video

"Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal."
Igor Stravinsky

As previously mentioned, this could be done with a plethora of musicians. It's fairly obvious you did this with one of the most popular rock bands just for your 15 minutes of youtube fame.

enjoy it, I guess.


in summation, I hate the internet.

This happened quite a bit, especially in blues circles were the music is very similar. I think half of it is ignorance a small portion ego and the rest is just plain bad judgement.

The extent of the plagiarism is astounding.

Youre wrong.
Just about all of that bears perfect resemblance. Maybe not to die hard zep fans....

Im a HUGE Zep fan. Their music is amazing. I knew they borrowed a bit, but until I saw this, I didnt realize how much. It makes me like them a tad less actually.
Zeps versions are better ofcourse than the originals, but thats not the point.

And what you said about that guy wanting 15 minutes of fame was weak man. Im pissed too, but that was a bad comment.

I knew Zep plagiarized Stairway and some other stuff, but God, the scope of what they did is amazing. Talk about disregard for ethics and respect. Not to mention legality. It just sucks to see so many old blues and folk artists getting screwed out of royalties, recognitioin and respect. Sure the Zep versions are better, but being able to arrange a song well and add a couple riffs doesn't make you any better in my book. I'm no big Zep fan and this knocks them down my list quite a lot. I mean, several of those songs were huge hits and they thought it was alright to disregard the REAL songwriters and lyricists who wrote the songs in the first place? AND copy the arrangement and lyrics almost exactly most of the time? It's all quite sickening to me. Kudos to the youtuber who put this up to try and bring this to light though. It should open quite a few eyes.

/rant

_________________
"Christ, what would rock and roll be without feedback?" - David Gilmour

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"

_________________
Sponsored by Smitty's Barrows
New and Improved, now with WHEELS!

Ow, there is no such thing as an original idea. Unless you're zvex, or as it turns out, Zepplin

_________________
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important - C.S. Lewis

I totally agree. Seems many are missing the point and just throwing out the "well... nothing is original...there version is better, blah blah blah"...

If only we could all be like Eric Clapton and search out the original songwriters and give 'em credit/cash/kudos.

I guess if EC could do all that through a drug induced stupor then there's no reason Jimmy Page couldn't have, too.

(Thank goodness they're both sober now...)

_________________
Tuesday is no good for The Eradicator.
Check out http://www.monkeypedals.com
For spam that pays me http://joeoffers.topoffers.us/

I couldn't agree with you more.

_________________
"It’s your soldering."

Just because it's always been said that musicians make good travelers and thieves doesn't necessarily justify the ends. I felt the same way back when a lot of rappers where using uncredited samples without permission from the original artists. Actually, I think that unpermitted sampling makes what Zep did pale by comparsion. I mean, sure they stole other people's ideas, but at least they actually could play and sing these ideas, as opposed to the sampling rappers who couldn't sing or play a note. Of course their exceptions to this, but I'm sure these expections are probably quite minimal. Oh how I've gotten way off topic. I will now throw my soapbox into the flames - LOL

_________________
Keep 'yer tips tinned, 'yer sponges wet, and TELL THEM KIDS TO SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

I think it's funny that Zep has taken so much from others yet is also one of the most openly derogatory of other bands 'copying their sound'. Anybody remember the band Kingdom Come? Plant had nothing good to say about them, going so far as calling them thieves in an interview for sounding so much like early Zep.

Maybe he should have said "Hey - we stole that first - it's ours!".

I wonder if Zepplin are the A-holes, our they just have shifty lawyers and management who has no attention to detail...

Now a funny story. Maybe ten years ago I was playing in a six (sometimes seven) piece band that insisted on writing songs together. It was a slow and painful process...anyways, one day at practice the perfect ending to a particular song popped into my head. I mean perfect. I started to play it and in an hour or so we had it all worked out.

So later on that day I was driving home flipping through the channels on the radio and I heard my perfect ending being played for me, almost note for note, by the fine gentlemen of Lynrd Skynrd. That's right, I somehow managed to subconsciously rip off the end of freebird.

Oops.

I bought the Kingdom Come CD when it first came out. I liked it and still do.
There is no denying that it has a Zeppelinish sound to it, but every song Zeppelin does is different from the rest. It's like they couldn't decide what style or sound they wanted.
Kind of like Deep Purple, but without the line-up changes and puffy shirts.

_________________
Sponsored by Smitty's Barrows
New and Improved, now with WHEELS!

Alright, maybe I should've said something along the lines of "some of the songs aren't plagiarized or it's not necessarily their fault".

here's a website also dealing with Zeppelin's plagiarism
http://www.artofthemix.org/FindAMix/get ... ixID=89189

notice how it not only mentions the same songs as the youtube video, but also mentions mentions a few other songs that properly credited the original artists -- songs which this youtube video conveniently overlooked, I guess.
Now, why would the band properly credit some covers but not the ones mentioned in the video? That seems strange. I've heard a fair number of accusations that Led Zeppelin is greedy and money hungry, but I don't buy into that. They could have made literally hundreds of millions of dollars touring since Bonham's death, but how many shows have they done? With a band as big as Zeppelin, most of their money comes from concert ticket sales and merchandise, NOT the small portion they get from album sales. Anyone else find it strange how an allegedly money hungry band would plagiarize to save a fraction of a cent per album sale when they could be pulling in millions replaying the same ol' classics at arenas across the world?
So why would a band credit the original artists on some songs but not others? I have a few theories -- and before someone asks, I have no sources for these. They're all personal observations. But I've yet to see any hard evidence that Zeppelin maliciously and intently plagiarized these songs so my observations are no more unfounded then the ones in that video.

Now, I've never released an album and probably will never be dealing with a major record label, but I would think there's various other people -- publishing and record companies, management -- all of whom are involved with and have a say in what is ultimately put inside the album (including the credits). Doesn't it sound plausible that a record executive or manager either forgot to credit the originals, mistook the song to be an original, honestly didn't know that the song was a cover, or deliberately did not credit the originals? For all we know, the band members themselves could have had a minute role in what goes inside the booklet.
There's a wide margin for error and misunderstanding -- on all those songs, Zeppelin added to or completely changed the music and even parts of the lyrics. I'm no lawyer but wouldn't that warrant said band member(s) being given partial songwriting credits? Most of these songs are pretty obscure and I can pretty much guarantee the folks sitting behind a desk at Atlantic hadn't heard of them. Is it not possible that somewhere along the line from Zeppelin covering the song to its final publication -- with all the time and people involved -- that somewhere, someone made a mistake?
Again, I have no proof that it was an accident, but I've yet to see proof that it wasn't. just throwin' out possible theories here.

Maybe Zeppelin can't write?
Forget about every song on that youtube video, then go listen to any Zeppelin album (while skipping the songs mentioned in the video) and tell me if they could write a song or not. Ignoring every song that's potentially plagiarized or ripped off they still have a catalog showcasing amazing musical ability. To suggest that a band able to write a 100 classics had to steal to make a good song is just ridiculous.
although the non-zep fans probably won't agree with me on that part.


Now, for that song that sounds like Stairway. I'm not gonna sit here and say something about there only being so many ways to arrange the relatively small amount of notes on a fretboard because I'm not a bullshitter. The song sounds like stairway (here it is in it's entirety, for reference)
I think the rest of the 8 minutes of Stairway that clearly did NOT come from Taurus is more than enough to showcase the band's songwriting capabilities.
I'd be willing to bet that we've all, at one point in time or another, done this. StillLearnin' just said he did with with freebird. Earlier this week I 'wrote' a riff I thought was pretty sweet until I realized Sepultura beat me to it by a decade.
When we listen to music, it seems to stick in our head enough where we couldn't think what it sounds like, but subconsciously we are able to recite it (or something that resembles it) on an instrument. My best guess would be Page heard the song a few times (probably while under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol) and when he was writing Stairway, it was still lingering in his subconscious. Speaking from first hand experience, it happens. The difference is when I do it, my song doesn't become one of the most popular rock songs ever.
I might add that legally, there's nothing wrong with this. While the parts are very similar, they're far from note for note copies so it's not plagiarism and no legal action can be taken -- besides civil court which involves no laws being broken, but that really boils down to who's got the best lawyer and Zeppelin have more money than Spirit so they'd be a shoe-in.


Personally, I think it's pretty unfair to automatically assume Zeppelin were intentionally plagiarizing these songs. Proof of a crime does not necessarily equate to proof of malicious intent.

But whatever, I doubt I'll change anyone's mind. Believe what you want, I don't care.




It seems to me that most of the videos on youtube are just that -- 15 minutes of internet fame. I sincerely hope that the creator of the video will not take anything said on the internet even remotely seriously. Do a search on "zeppelin plagiarism" once. The subject has been discussed to death, and I've read every single point in this video a dozen times before. Even on youtube there's more videos on the subject, and in the comments on that Spirit song everyone seems to be discussing the similarities between it and stairway. The creator of the video rehashing these same notions that have been discussed since before the internet was even in wide-spread use is what led me to make the 15 minutes of fame comment. Again, I don't believe anyone should take anything seriously when it's coming from someone behind a mask of anonymity.


As much as I'd like to type more, I'm gonna go now. I think I'll go listen to IV, and I'm going to enjoy it just as much as I would've a week ago before I saw this topic.

I really like Led Zeppelin. One of my favorite bands. It's pretty obvious the start of Stairway to Heaven was "heavily influenced" with the short (2 1/2 minutes) song "Taurus" by Spirit.

But check this out:
Pachelbel Rant

When you think about the time Led Zeppelin was emerging as a force to be reckoned with, and the sheer volume of bands that were blues influenced, it comes as no surprise that everyone ripped off every one. Led Zeppelin was more successful, so they were also more scrutinized.

What they didn't do was go out of their way to find the originators and make sure that props were given. Whoever was behind the obfuscation is immaterial. I mentioned it in passing previously, but Eric Clapton went out of his way to make certain that Robert Johnson's family was compensated for Eric's use of Mr. Johnson's music. It isn't hard to do the right thing, but it is harder than doing nothing.

_________________
Tuesday is no good for The Eradicator.
Check out http://www.monkeypedals.com
For spam that pays me http://joeoffers.topoffers.us/

Yea, but Jooooosh ... I still think youre missing the point.
I also think youre taking this a little too personally.

Instead of conjuring up possible excuses for this band, just let it go.
Who knows why these thigns happened? Maybe they knowingly took some material not really even caring or maybe thinking it was alright to borrow....and maybe they accidentally and unknowingly recorded similar material.

If they credited anyone, than great. Cool.
But, if they didnt (and many they havent) then people wonder why, etc.

I totally understand that a guitarist can come up with a lick or riff, only later to realize its someone elses, but if you watch the video, there is proof positive that many of those examples were blatant rip offs, man. Come on.

"Ive heard a fair number of accusations that Led Zeppelin is greedy and money hungry, but I don't buy into that. "

... 70 bucks a pop... for nose bleed seats ... for a band that needs money like they need a shotgun blast to the face doesnt seem money hungry? I wonder what charities and foundations they offered a portion to ....

Led Zeppelin still rock. Case closed.

I almost forgot (and how could I?)...

Zebra. Remember them? 10 flavors of kickass, very heavily Zep influenced.
The guitarist even played a Gibson doubleneck ...

Care to elaborate on as to how I'm missing the point? I thought the point was whether or not Led Zeppelin plagiarized those songs -- a point I just addressed with a few hundred words.



That's hardly even expensive these days for such a big act. Last summer I paid ~$70 for Tom Petty w/ Pearl Jam nosebleed seats and like $60 for upper deck Tool tickets.
Besides, they could have done the same thing a thousand times this past decade.



The Ahmet Ertegun Education fund
http://www.ahmettribute.com/main.php?show=bio

The amount of money that a band gets from album sales is not trivial. And it goes way beyond album sales when it comes to attributing the songwriting credits. Every time a song is played on the radio, or in a bar on a jukebox, the writer gets a royalty. (In theory at least) How many people do you think are still actually buying copies of "Every Breath you Take" these days? Yet Sting gets tens of thousands of dollars each month from that song alone because it is one of the most played songs on the radio to this day. Not Andy Summers. Not Stewart Copeland. Just Sting. Because he is the one who is listed as the songwriter. Songwriting credits are a huge deal and it is the primary reason that just about every band sets up its own publishing company as soon as they start making recordings. So they are assured of control of the songs and the future royalties that are due them. That is why people like the family of Willie Dixon sued Zeppelin years after those songs were recorded. Aside from the fact that people should know who wrote the song, there are big bucks involved.



When it comes to Zeppelin I seriously doubt this was the case. They were notorious for being in complete control of everything that they touched. Peter Grant saw to that as well as Page. Do you really think that a record company executive would have approved the cover of the fourth album? Page has stated very clearly that the album cover was a deliberate attempt by the band to show the public and the record company that it does not matter what is on the outside of the record as long as the music on the album is great. It helps if you are the biggest band in the world, of course, but the point was made nevertheless. I would think it is more plausible that Page and the gang had a very large role in what went on the inside cover of their albums and not the other way around. Page was certainly involved with the artwork, whether or not lyrics would be printed, etc. The fact that just about every Zep song is credited to a different combination of the four members shows that they didn't leave it up to some exec. Besides, when you publish a song, you need to list the songwriters in their proper context in order to receive royalties. No, I don't buy that argument, it was no accident.



Several of those songs were not originally credited to the songwriters listed until after legal action was taken. Whole Lotta Love is a prime example. On the original version of Zep II, and even the CD version that I have which was printed over 15 years after the songs were originally recorded, there is no mention of any songwriters other than the four members of Zeppelin (That goes for the Lemon Song, Moby Dick, and Bring it on Home as well). The same song, when released on the BBC Sessions, which come out until after many civil suits had been filed against the band by various artists families, credits Willie Dixon along with the four members of the group.

When you become as big as Zeppelin did and you do it by playing a style of music that is generally attributed to the blues artists of yesteryear, you are going to be scrutinized. In the case of Zeppelin, they may have drank from the well a little too often. The fact that they got caught, more than once, and were required to make changes and no doubt pay back royalties, I believe speaks to their culpability. They were and still are one of my favorite bands, but I don't have to like what they did when it comes to giving credit where credit is due. Perhaps they were innocently paying homage to their blues heroes and didn't realize that they were doing so, but when you sing someone else's lyrics, you know you heard them before, and you know you didn't write them, so it becomes a bit of a stretch to buy the innocence theory.



Loved those guys... Saw them live in Green Bay back in the 80s. He played a white BC Rich double neck when I saw them. Great show. Very much Zep disciples.

I knew they stole some thing, especially their blues numbers but man!!

Whole lotta love! Stairway! Babe I'm gonna leave you!

Not to mention the song that made me go "oh my god page is an amazing guitar player/arranger" which is black mountain slide. Which he stole pretty much note for note.

I am a massive zeppelin fan but I have to say after seeing that video I kind of lost a lot of respect for them!

I understand a lot of bands take songs and arrange them/change them up and that's all good. But it seems they almost copied them entirely without credit!

_________________
Gear Demos
http://youtube.com/martys13